Discussion:
Two Towers: unwatchable
(слишком старое сообщение для ответа)
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
2010-08-19 17:22:32 UTC
Permalink
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.

--Tedward
Pauli G
2010-08-19 17:25:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one?   No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo.   And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
Pauli G
2010-08-19 17:40:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one?   No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo.   And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
2010-08-19 18:24:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
<
<In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
<Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
<overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
<that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
<certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
<out of the sky.

They could have shot down the beast, but it couldn't kill a Nazgûl
unless fired by a woman.

They'd be stuck with one pissed off Nazgûl.

--Tedward
Goro
2010-08-19 18:26:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
<
<In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
<Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
<overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
<that swamp unarmed.   A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
<certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
<out of the sky.
They could have shot down the beast, but it couldn't kill a Nazgûl
unless fired by a woman.
They'd be stuck with one pissed off Nazgûl.
--Tedward
Sam isn't a woman?

-goro-
unclejr
2010-08-20 00:45:27 UTC
Permalink
Post by Goro
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
<
<In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
<Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
<overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
<that swamp unarmed.   A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
<certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
<out of the sky.
They could have shot down the beast, but it couldn't kill a Nazgûl
unless fired by a woman.
They'd be stuck with one pissed off Nazgûl.
Sam isn't a woman?
In Ralph Bakshi's version he was.

-Junior
Öjevind Lång
2010-08-20 12:55:20 UTC
Permalink
"unclejr" <***@kenyon.edu> skrev i meddelandet news:839d2804-3958-4f74-a5c7-***@j8g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...

[snip]
Post by unclejr
Post by Goro
Sam isn't a woman?
In Ralph Bakshi's version he was.
That's not my recollection. As I remember it, Bakshi depicted Sam as an
ugly, snivelling moron.

Öjevind
unclejr
2010-08-20 18:35:53 UTC
Permalink
Post by unclejr
Post by Goro
Sam isn't a woman?
In Ralph Bakshi's version he was.
That's not my recollection. As I remember it, Bakshi depicted Sam as  an
ugly, snivelling moron.
A highly effeminate one, though.

-Junior
Pauli G
2010-08-20 19:00:05 UTC
Permalink
Post by unclejr
Post by unclejr
Post by Goro
Sam isn't a woman?
In Ralph Bakshi's version he was.
That's not my recollection. As I remember it, Bakshi depicted Sam as  an
ugly, snivelling moron.
A highly effeminate one, though.
-Junior
manpurse?
Chet Weaver
2010-08-20 00:32:15 UTC
Permalink
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like Middle-Earth harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie. If you don't watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.

-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
tenworld
2010-08-20 01:00:28 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting?  
I think it raises an interesting point or maybe something called
Merlin's 1st law: Wizards can only conjure up technology limited to
the physical laws of the world they are in. Middle Earth was not yet
an Einstonian-atomic world. As the world changed into modern times
the abilities of a wizard would eveolve.

Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from the the
technology that could be imagined.
Pauli G
2010-08-20 01:39:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by tenworld
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting?  
I think it raises an interesting point or maybe something called
Merlin's 1st law:  Wizards can only conjure up technology limited to
the physical laws of the world they are in.  Middle Earth was not yet
an Einstonian-atomic world.  As the world changed into modern times
the abilities of a wizard would eveolve.
Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from the the
technology that could be imagined.
I thought that conjuring a Pulse Rifle would be keeping well within
the first law of wizardry, that's why I didn't suggest something
ridiculous and unrealistic like an X-wing fighter.
Chet Weaver
2010-08-20 22:22:47 UTC
Permalink
If the wizard isn't already rapid-firing energy bursts, what makes you think
he could make something that does?

-- Chet Weaver
Post by tenworld
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a
swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting?
I think it raises an interesting point or maybe something called
Merlin's 1st law: Wizards can only conjure up technology limited to
the physical laws of the world they are in. Middle Earth was not yet
an Einstonian-atomic world. As the world changed into modern times
the abilities of a wizard would eveolve.
Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from the the
technology that could be imagined.
I thought that conjuring a Pulse Rifle would be keeping well within
the first law of wizardry, that's why I didn't suggest something
ridiculous and unrealistic like an X-wing fighter.
Pauli G
2010-08-20 22:39:30 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chet Weaver
If the wizard isn't already rapid-firing energy bursts, what makes you think
he could make something that does?
A wizard's energy bursts are so rapid that to our mortal eyes it only
appears to be a steady stream of energy - in fact it's pulsating.
Chet Weaver
2010-08-20 23:26:39 UTC
Permalink
And it must be real easy, right? 'Cause he only does it when absolutely
necessary.

-- Chet Weaver
Post by Chet Weaver
If the wizard isn't already rapid-firing energy bursts, what makes you think
he could make something that does?
A wizard's energy bursts are so rapid that to our mortal eyes it only
appears to be a steady stream of energy - in fact it's pulsating.
Pauli G
2010-08-20 23:30:03 UTC
Permalink
And it must be real easy, right?  'Cause he only does it when absolutely
necessary.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Chet Weaver
If the wizard isn't already rapid-firing energy bursts, what makes you think
he could make something that does?
A wizard's energy bursts are so rapid that to our mortal eyes it only
appears to be a steady stream of energy - in fact it's pulsating.
sometimes in the movies the wizard's energy bursts are overdone, but I
thought that the LOTR nicely reflected how it is for wizards in real
life.
Pauli G
2010-08-20 01:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting?  There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire.  A setting like Middle-Earth harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie.  If you don't watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed.   A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle

http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html


derek
2010-08-20 12:57:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pauli G
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting?  There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire.  A setting like Middle-Earth harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie.  If you don't watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed.   A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
http://youtu.be/49OZ0M_0fhg
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
Pauli G
2010-08-20 14:20:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by derek
Post by Pauli G
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting?  There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire.  A setting like Middle-Earth harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie.  If you don't watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed.   A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
http://youtu.be/49OZ0M_0fhg
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
that's way too technical Derek, remember that this is fantasy. And
also, I completely disagree that the M41A is a completely physics-
related weapon, as you'll remember that it also is a pump-action
grenade launcher as well as a pulse rifle. Considering how orcs
travel in massed formation, a couple of rpg rounds would be just what
the doctor ordered.
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
2010-08-20 14:47:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by derek
Post by Pauli G
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a
swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic
and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like Middle-Earth
harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie. If you don't
watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
http://youtu.be/49OZ0M_0fhg
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.- Hide quoted text -
<
<that's way too technical Derek, remember that this is fantasy. And
<also, I completely disagree that the M41A is a completely physics-
<related weapon, as you'll remember that it also is a pump-action
<grenade launcher as well as a pulse rifle. Considering how orcs
<travel in massed formation, a couple of rpg rounds would be just what
<the doctor ordered.

It would be cool if the M41A glowed when orcs are near.

--Tedward
Pauli G
2010-08-20 15:09:16 UTC
Permalink
Post by derek
Post by Pauli G
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a
swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic
and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like Middle-Earth
harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie. If you don't
watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down
good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money,
can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing
the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
http://youtu.be/49OZ0M_0fhg
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.- Hide quoted text -
<
<that's way too technical Derek, remember that this is fantasy.    And
<also, I completely disagree that the M41A is a completely physics-
<related weapon, as you'll remember that it also is a pump-action
<grenade launcher as well as a pulse rifle.    Considering how orcs
<travel in massed formation, a couple of rpg rounds would be just what
<the doctor ordered.
It would be cool if the M41A glowed when orcs are near.
--Tedward- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
it'd be real cool if there were graffiti names painted on the M4A1s,
and someone named his "The Orcinator"
Pauli G
2010-08-20 15:21:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pauli G
Post by derek
Post by Pauli G
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic
and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same
high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like Middle-Earth
harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie. If you don't
watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down
good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money,
can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing
the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
http://youtu.be/49OZ0M_0fhg
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.- Hide
quoted text -
<
<that's way too technical Derek, remember that this is fantasy.    And
<also, I completely disagree that the M41A is a completely physics-
<related weapon, as you'll remember that it also is a pump-action
<grenade launcher as well as a pulse rifle.    Considering how orcs
<travel in massed formation, a couple of rpg rounds would be just what
<the doctor ordered.
It would be cool if the M41A glowed when orcs are near.
--Tedward- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
it'd be real cool if there were graffiti names painted on the M4A1s,
and someone named his "The Orcinator"- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
and the hobbit with the most orc kills would call himself "the Orc n'
Man"
derek
2010-08-20 16:02:11 UTC
Permalink
Post by derek
Post by Pauli G
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting?  There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire.  A setting like Middle-Earth harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie.  If you don't watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed.   A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
http://youtu.be/49OZ0M_0fhg
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave
that's way too technical Derek, remember that this is fantasy.    And
also, I completely disagree that the M41A is a completely physics-
related weapon, as you'll remember that it also is a pump-action
grenade launcher as well as a pulse rifle.    Considering how orcs
travel in massed formation, a couple of rpg rounds would be just what
the doctor ordered.
Indeed it would, but an rpg _is_ basic rocket science. Pure applied
physics!
Michael Press
2010-08-20 22:43:57 UTC
Permalink
In article
Post by derek
Post by Pauli G
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting?  There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire.  A setting like Middle-Earth harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie.  If you don't watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed.   A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
http://youtu.be/49OZ0M_0fhg
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
Energy is not real the way matter is real.
The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
That does not mean you can cage some energy
in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
known unvarying quantity of energy in the
way you can isolate a positron or some other
particle in a Penning trap.
--
Michael Press
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
2010-08-20 22:46:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Press
Post by derek
Post by Pauli G
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a
swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic
and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like Middle-Earth
harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie. If you don't
watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money,
can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
http://youtu.be/49OZ0M_0fhg
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
Energy is not real the way matter is real.
The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
That does not mean you can cage some energy
in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
known unvarying quantity of energy in the
way you can isolate a positron or some other
particle in a Penning trap.
Oh yeah? My car battery has exactly 12 volts in it.

--Tedward
Chet Weaver
2010-08-20 23:24:01 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by Michael Press
Energy is not real the way matter is real.
The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
That does not mean you can cage some energy
in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
known unvarying quantity of energy in the
way you can isolate a positron or some other
particle in a Penning trap.
Oh yeah? My car battery has exactly 12 volts in it.
Your car battery is *producing* exactly twelve volts. It is constantly
breaking down materials to create reactions measured in volts. It contains
energy about as much as a lightbulb contains light.
--
Chet Weaver

"World leaders and shield eaters have many likes alike."
-- Hylian proverb
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
2010-08-23 14:24:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chet Weaver
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by Michael Press
Energy is not real the way matter is real.
The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
That does not mean you can cage some energy
in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
known unvarying quantity of energy in the
way you can isolate a positron or some other
particle in a Penning trap.
Oh yeah? My car battery has exactly 12 volts in it.
Your car battery is *producing* exactly twelve volts. It is constantly
breaking down materials to create reactions measured in volts. It
contains energy about as much as a lightbulb contains light.
If you don't think batteries contain useful energy, you shouldn't
bother using flashlights when the lights go out.

--Tedward
Michael Press
2010-08-21 16:38:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by Michael Press
Post by derek
Post by Pauli G
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic
and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like Middle-Earth
harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie. If you don't
watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped
down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money,
can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without
seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
http://youtu.be/49OZ0M_0fhg
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
Energy is not real the way matter is real.
The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
That does not mean you can cage some energy
in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
known unvarying quantity of energy in the
way you can isolate a positron or some other
particle in a Penning trap.
Oh yeah? My car battery has exactly 12 volts in it.
In theory 2.041 volt per cell for a total of 12.246 volt.
The battery in my car measures 12.27 volt,
but I do not know the accuracy of the meter.
--
Michael Press
derek
2010-08-23 01:05:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Press
Post by derek
Post by Pauli G
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic
and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like Middle-Earth
harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie. If you don't
watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped
down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money,
can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without
seeing the
first one? No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo. And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
In the scene where Sam, Gollum and Frodo are walking through the Dead
Marshes and a Nazgûl appears riding a flying beast and starts circling
overhead, I was thinking that they really should not have gone into
that swamp unarmed. A M41A Pulse Rifle from Aliens has the range and
certainly the firepower where they could have easily shot the Nazgûl
out of the sky.
it's not a ray gun, it's a M41A Pulse Rifle
http://www.tk560.com/m41a.html
http://youtu.be/49OZ0M_0fhg
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
Energy is not real the way matter is real.
The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
That does not mean you can cage some energy
in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
known unvarying quantity of energy in the
way you can isolate a positron or some other
particle in a Penning trap.
You say that like you just contradicted me. Odd, since I completely
agree.
Oh yeah?  My car battery has exactly 12 volts in it.
You think? You'd better get a new battery. 12V batteries should have
quite a bit more.
Michael Press
2010-08-23 03:41:43 UTC
Permalink
In article
[...]
Post by derek
Post by Michael Press
Post by derek
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
Energy is not real the way matter is real.
The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
That does not mean you can cage some energy
in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
known unvarying quantity of energy in the
way you can isolate a positron or some other
particle in a Penning trap.
You say that like you just contradicted me. Odd, since I completely
agree.
Do you retract
"Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave."


For if energy behaved like a particle
it could be exhibited in a Penning trap.
Energy in physical theory is
embodied in the energy principle. Physical
theory makes no claims about the reality of energy.
--
Michael Press
derek
2010-08-23 12:30:34 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Press
In article
[...]
Post by Michael Press
Post by derek
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
Energy is not real the way matter is real.
The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
That does not mean you can cage some energy
in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
known unvarying quantity of energy in the
way you can isolate a positron or some other
particle in a Penning trap.
You say that like you just contradicted me.  Odd, since I completely
agree.
Do you retract
"Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave."
No.
Post by Michael Press
For if energy behaved like a particle
it could be exhibited in a Penning trap.
Sometimes it doesn't. There's physics for you.
Post by Michael Press
Energy in physical theory is
embodied in the energy principle. Physical
theory makes no claims about the reality of energy.
Indeed not. Otoh, it _does_ quite freely claim the interchangeability
of matter and energy.
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
2010-08-23 14:29:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Press
Post by derek
Post by Michael Press
Post by derek
Pulse/Ray - isn't that pretty much the basis of modern physics?
Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave.
Energy is not real the way matter is real.
The energy principle is fundamental in physics.
That does not mean you can cage some energy
in a laboratory, point, and say there is a
known unvarying quantity of energy in the
way you can isolate a positron or some other
particle in a Penning trap.
You say that like you just contradicted me. Odd, since I completely
agree.
Do you retract
"Sometimes energy behaves like a particle, sometimes like a wave."
For if energy behaved like a particle
it could be exhibited in a Penning trap.
Or it could move objects in a vaccuum.

--Tedward
Troels Forchhammer
2010-08-23 21:31:27 UTC
Permalink
In message <news:rubrum-***@news.albasani.net>
Michael Press <***@pacbell.net> spoke these staves:
<snip>
Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of energy.
I am tempted to quote Pauli (at least by attribution): "This isn't
right. This isn't even wrong."

Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of _anything_.

However, the claims about "energy" are no different from the claims
about the various ways that energy can be expressed -- such as, for
instance, mass.
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable
from magic.
- Arthur C. Clarke, /Profiles of The Future/, 1961
(Also known as 'Clarke's third law')
Michael Press
2010-08-24 06:49:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Troels Forchhammer
<snip>
Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of energy.
I am tempted to quote Pauli (at least by attribution): "This isn't
right. This isn't even wrong."
Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of _anything_.
However, the claims about "energy" are no different from the claims
about the various ways that energy can be expressed -- such as, for
instance, mass.
Did you read what I wrote about Penning traps?
An electron can be caged and exhibited for weeks.
E = m.c^2 does not mean what you think it means.
--
Michael Press
derek
2010-08-24 13:17:17 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Press
Post by Troels Forchhammer
<snip>
Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of energy.
I am tempted to quote Pauli (at least by attribution): "This isn't
right. This isn't even wrong."
Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of _anything_.
However, the claims about "energy" are no different from the claims
about the various ways that energy can be expressed -- such as, for
instance, mass.
Did you read what I wrote about Penning traps?
An electron can be caged and exhibited for weeks.
E = m.c^2 does not mean what you think it means.
LOL. I don't know you, so perhaps you do know what you're talking
about - but after years of believing Troels, I'm not going to stop now
(and I _know_ he knows what E=mc^!2 means).
Troels Forchhammer
2010-08-24 17:57:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Press
Post by Troels Forchhammer
Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of energy.
[...]
Post by Michael Press
Post by Troels Forchhammer
Physical theory makes no claims about the reality of _anything_.
However, the claims about "energy" are no different from the
claims about the various ways that energy can be expressed --
such as, for instance, mass.
Did you read what I wrote about Penning traps?
Yes, but you appear not to have read what I wrote about physics . .
..
Post by Michael Press
An electron can be caged and exhibited for weeks.
You can prepare some system, and then use some complex measuring
equipment to make some measurements on that system. You then process
these measurements using some number-crusher, and you end with
results that are (more or less) equal to the results you get by
making some other calculations using a model that contains an
abstract entity called an electron. That is what physical theory is
limited to expressing itself about.

To say that physical theory holds that electrons are 'real' is
nonsense!

You appear to hold the mistaken belief that physical theory ascribes
some ontological status to the abstract entities in the model it
creates, but that is untrue. This realization has been an important
part of physics at least since Karl Popper's criticism of the use of
inductive reasoning in the natural sciences (excluding the purely
abstract mathematics).

In other words: modern physical theory does not claim that electrons
are real! Like most other physicists, I certainly believe that they
are, but this is _not_ something that is stated by physical theory --
this is a matter of belief and it may be that in 200 years the
physicists of that period will look back at our 'electrons' with the
same kind of overbearing smile with which we, today, look back at
e.g. the phlogiston theory.

It is a very important point to remmeber whenever we deal with the
natural sciences. The scientific method is a method of _doubt_, _not_
of certainty or 'truth' or 'reality' (I love Feynman's assertion that
'Science is the organized skepticism in the reliability of expert
opinion'). It may be that the model employed by modern physics is
closer to the objective reality than the model employed a century
ago, but we have no way of proving this: there is no way in which we
can infer from the specific to the universal (we should, of course,
also remember Russell's advice to remember that 'some things are much
more nearly certain than others.')

I can recommend the overview given at
<http://www.arachnoid.com/doubt/>. The view of science as a human
activity is, I'm afraid, somewhat idealistic (at least it deals more
with 'science as it should be' than 'science as it is') and not
necessarily in accordance with modern theories of science (which are,
of course, not themselves scientific <GG>), but this doesn't affect
the fundamentals. No scientific theory is held to be 'true', _even_
when there is solid evidence supporting it: instead it is considered
the best model we currently have, but likely to be eventually
superceded by a better one.

The discussion of the ontological status of the concepts we use in
physics becomes evidently ludicrous when it comes to such concepts as
energy, but also quarks, gluons and many other entitities employed in
modern physics. Physics can never make any statements about what is
'real' or 'true' -- such concepts simply have no place in physics
because physics has no way to say what is meant by them. There is
thus no way to distinguish the lack of ontological status ascribed to
electron from the lack of ontological status acribed to energy.

Another way to describe (going _beyond_ physical science, trying to
apply its descriptions to objective reality) what is going on in the
Penning trap is to say that you have trapped a certain amount of
energy in a form in which it has a certain electrical charge and
other characteristics. Energy with these particular characteristics
is then what we call an electron. This description is every bit as
much in accordance with modern physics as merely saying that an
electron is trapped.
Post by Michael Press
E = m.c^2 does not mean what you think it means.
What it means certainly depends on whom you ask -- many physicists
will tell you that it means that matter and energy are just two words
for the same thing (I do, for instance, remember one professor of
high energy physics at the Niels Bohr Institute in Copenhagen who
told me precisely that). For my own part I am not an expert in
cosmology, general relativity or high energy physics (I did my M.Sc.
in electrophysics), so I will refrain from giving any opinion as to
what might be the _physical_ (i.e. 'real') meaning of the equation (I
know, of course, what it means in the abstract mathematical model
that is physical theory).
--
Troels Forchhammer <troelsfo(a)googlewave.com>
Valid e-mail is <troelsfo(a)gmail.com>
Please put [AFT], [RABT] or 'Tolkien' in subject.

And he that breaks a thing to find out what it is has left
the path of wisdom.
- Gandalf, /The Fellowship of the Ring/ (J.R.R. Tolkien)
Michael Press
2010-08-20 05:23:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same high-fantasy
settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like Middle-Earth harkens
to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had to fight your enemy
face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance with a chaingun.
I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie was all that great,
just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie. If you don't watch a
movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
Here is your lemon slice and tartar sauce.
A big hand for contestant number 5!
--
Michael Press
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
2010-08-20 14:44:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a swords-and-sorcery
type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy settings were magic and
technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually not the same
high-fantasy settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A setting like
Middle-Earth harkens to a time when combat was an actual skill and you had
to fight your enemy face-to-face rather than mowing them down at a distance
with a chaingun. I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord of the Rings movie
was all that great, just that a gun wouldn't fit the themes of the movie.
If you don't watch a movie like Lord of the Rings and expect to see pulse
rifles.
Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
pulse gun.

--Tedward
tenworld
2010-08-20 21:45:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
pulse gun.
Gandalf used a biological weapon? that would certainly be too
advanced
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
2010-08-20 21:47:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
pulse gun.
<
<Gandalf used a biological weapon? that would certainly be too
<advanced

Technically, I guess the staph is made of wood, but that hardly
makes it a biological weapon.

--Tedward
Michael Press
2010-08-20 22:48:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
pulse gun.
<
<Gandalf used a biological weapon? that would certainly be too
<advanced
Technically, I guess the staph is made of wood, but that hardly
makes it a biological weapon.
You do not see the germ of his witticism.
--
Michael Press
Odysseus
2010-08-21 04:29:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michael Press
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
pulse gun.
<
<Gandalf used a biological weapon? that would certainly be too
<advanced
Technically, I guess the staph is made of wood, but that hardly
makes it a biological weapon.
You do not see the germ of his witticism.
Foot-in-mouth disease?

But the thread was bacilli enough to start with.
--
Odysseus
Chet Weaver
2010-08-20 23:19:19 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a
swords-and-sorcery type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy
settings were magic and technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually
not the same high-fantasy settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A
setting like Middle-Earth harkens to a time when combat was an actual
skill and you had to fight your enemy face-to-face rather than mowing them
down at a distance with a chaingun. I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord
of the Rings movie was all that great, just that a gun wouldn't fit the
themes of the movie. If you don't watch a movie like Lord of the Rings and
expect to see pulse rifles.
Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
pulse gun.
Yes, but he's not rapid-firing energy-bursts like Rambo. Magic is a
difficult skill in his world, and Gandalf is over 2000 years old and
considered one of, if not the, best. And yet, with legions of monsters
bearing down on him, he finds swinging a sword more effective than trying to
shoot lasers, summoning lightning bolts from the sky, or even magically
nuking the field. While the effect may be similar to a pulse gun, he's not
*using* a pulse gun. He *is* the pulse gun. A pulse gun is solely designed
for the purpose of generating and projecting destructive energy blasts. It
is not concerned with its own maintenance or well-being, only causing
specific reactions to a pulled trigger. Gandalf is a complex organism that
has to eat, sleep, and breath on his own, is capable of independent thought,
action, and emotion, seeks the companionship of others, and has to do a
myriad of other things associated with being a living being. Doing what a
pulse gun can do on command takes considerable energy, focus, and knowledge
on a complex series of reactions that is slightly better than impossible in
the natural world with little more at his disposal than his ancient brain, a
wooden stick, and a long, white beard. Try assembling a gun each time you
want to fire a bullet and think about how many Orcs you can take down that
way.
--
Chet Weaver

"World leaders and shield eaters have many likes alike."
-- Hylian proverb
Pauli G
2010-08-21 00:08:00 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a
swords-and-sorcery type fantasy setting?  There are certainly fantasy
settings were magic and technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually
not the same high-fantasy settings that Tolkien seems to inspire.  A
setting like Middle-Earth harkens to a time when combat was an actual
skill and you had to fight your enemy face-to-face rather than mowing them
down at a distance with a chaingun. I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord
of the Rings movie was all that great, just that a gun wouldn't fit the
themes of the movie. If you don't watch a movie like Lord of the Rings and
expect to see pulse rifles.
Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
pulse gun.
Yes, but he's not rapid-firing energy-bursts like Rambo.  Magic is a
difficult skill in his world, and Gandalf is over 2000 years old and
considered one of, if not the, best.  And yet, with legions of monsters
bearing down on him, he finds swinging a sword more effective than trying to
shoot lasers, summoning lightning bolts from the sky, or even magically
nuking the field.  While the effect may be similar to a pulse gun, he's not
*using* a pulse gun.  He *is* the pulse gun.  A pulse gun is solely designed
for the purpose of generating and projecting destructive energy blasts.  It
is not concerned with its own maintenance or well-being, only causing
specific reactions to a pulled trigger.  Gandalf is a complex organism that
has to eat, sleep, and breath on his own, is capable of independent thought,
action, and emotion, seeks the companionship of others, and has to do a
myriad of other things associated with being a living being.  Doing what a
pulse gun can do on command takes considerable energy, focus, and knowledge
on a complex series of reactions that is slightly better than impossible in
the natural world with little more at his disposal than his ancient brain, a
wooden stick, and a long, white beard.  Try assembling a gun each time you
want to fire a bullet and think about how many Orcs you can take down that
way.
--
Chet Weaver
"World leaders and shield eaters have many likes alike."
-- Hylian proverb- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I could see the argument that Gandolf is a bio-pulse weapon, but let's
not forget that the M41A also is a rpg launcher. Gandolf cannot
launch rocket-propelled explosives. I quote:

"I wanna introduce you to a personal friend of mine. This is an M41A
pulse rifle. Ten millimeter with over-and-under thirty millimeter pump
action grenade launcher."
-- Hicks
Chet Weaver
2010-08-22 03:59:14 UTC
Permalink
I seem to remember Gandalf bringing fireworks to the Shire at the beginning
of the movie for Bilbo's 110th birthday. :P

-- Chet Weaver
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a
swords-and-sorcery type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy
settings were magic and technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually
not the same high-fantasy settings that Tolkien seems to inspire. A
setting like Middle-Earth harkens to a time when combat was an actual
skill and you had to fight your enemy face-to-face rather than mowing them
down at a distance with a chaingun. I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord
of the Rings movie was all that great, just that a gun wouldn't fit the
themes of the movie. If you don't watch a movie like Lord of the Rings and
expect to see pulse rifles.
Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
pulse gun.
Yes, but he's not rapid-firing energy-bursts like Rambo. Magic is a
difficult skill in his world, and Gandalf is over 2000 years old and
considered one of, if not the, best. And yet, with legions of monsters
bearing down on him, he finds swinging a sword more effective than trying to
shoot lasers, summoning lightning bolts from the sky, or even magically
nuking the field. While the effect may be similar to a pulse gun, he's not
*using* a pulse gun. He *is* the pulse gun. A pulse gun is solely designed
for the purpose of generating and projecting destructive energy blasts. It
is not concerned with its own maintenance or well-being, only causing
specific reactions to a pulled trigger. Gandalf is a complex organism that
has to eat, sleep, and breath on his own, is capable of independent thought,
action, and emotion, seeks the companionship of others, and has to do a
myriad of other things associated with being a living being. Doing what a
pulse gun can do on command takes considerable energy, focus, and knowledge
on a complex series of reactions that is slightly better than impossible in
the natural world with little more at his disposal than his ancient brain, a
wooden stick, and a long, white beard. Try assembling a gun each time you
want to fire a bullet and think about how many Orcs you can take down that
way.
--
Chet Weaver
"World leaders and shield eaters have many likes alike."
-- Hylian proverb- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
I could see the argument that Gandolf is a bio-pulse weapon, but let's
not forget that the M41A also is a rpg launcher. Gandolf cannot
launch rocket-propelled explosives. I quote:

"I wanna introduce you to a personal friend of mine. This is an M41A
pulse rifle. Ten millimeter with over-and-under thirty millimeter pump
action grenade launcher."
-- Hicks
derek
2010-08-23 01:09:48 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pauli G
I could see the argument that Gandolf is a bio-pulse weapon, but let's
not forget that the  M41A also is a rpg launcher.   Gandolf cannot
Sure he can. Haven't you read /The Hobbit/? The scene with Gandalf
and the dwarves treed by wargs, and Gandalf firing RP Pine Cones?
Pauli G
2010-08-23 12:53:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Pauli G
I could see the argument that Gandolf is a bio-pulse weapon, but let's
not forget that the  M41A also is a rpg launcher.   Gandolf cannot
Sure he can.  Haven't you read /The Hobbit/?  The scene with Gandalf
and the dwarves treed by wargs, and Gandalf firing RP Pine Cones?
I did not know that. So Gandolph basically has all the combat
capabilities of the M41A Pulse Rifle. This then brings me back to my
main point, that he should have been able to conjure these types of
weapons for Frodo and SamIAm.
Chet Weaver
2010-08-23 21:45:57 UTC
Permalink
I think that assumes that Gandalf can create matter from energy, or even out
of nothing. I don't remember seeing anything like that in the movies. Even
if he could, he probably wouldn't think mere mortals could handle such
firepower. Responsibility-wise, if not physically or mentally.

-- Chet Weaver
Post by Pauli G
I could see the argument that Gandolf is a bio-pulse weapon, but let's
not forget that the M41A also is a rpg launcher. Gandolf cannot
Sure he can. Haven't you read /The Hobbit/? The scene with Gandalf
and the dwarves treed by wargs, and Gandalf firing RP Pine Cones?
I did not know that. So Gandolph basically has all the combat
capabilities of the M41A Pulse Rifle. This then brings me back to my
main point, that he should have been able to conjure these types of
weapons for Frodo and SamIAm.
J.C. Watts Enslin
2010-08-22 13:25:24 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a
swords-and-sorcery type fantasy setting?  There are certainly fantasy
settings were magic and technology exist side-by-side, but they're usually
not the same high-fantasy settings that Tolkien seems to inspire.  A
setting like Middle-Earth harkens to a time when combat was an actual
skill and you had to fight your enemy face-to-face rather than mowing them
down at a distance with a chaingun. I'm not saying guns suck or the Lord
of the Rings movie was all that great, just that a gun wouldn't fit the
themes of the movie. If you don't watch a movie like Lord of the Rings and
expect to see pulse rifles.
Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
pulse gun.
Yes, but he's not rapid-firing energy-bursts like Rambo.  Magic is a
difficult skill in his world, and Gandalf is over 2000 years old and
considered one of, if not the, best.  And yet, with legions of monsters
bearing down on him, he finds swinging a sword more effective than trying to
shoot lasers, summoning lightning bolts from the sky, or even magically
nuking the field.  While the effect may be similar to a pulse gun, he's not
*using* a pulse gun.  He *is* the pulse gun.  A pulse gun is solely designed
for the purpose of generating and projecting destructive energy blasts.  It
is not concerned with its own maintenance or well-being, only causing
specific reactions to a pulled trigger.  Gandalf is a complex organism that
has to eat, sleep, and breath on his own, is capable of independent thought,
action, and emotion, seeks the companionship of others, and has to do a
myriad of other things associated with being a living being.  Doing what a
pulse gun can do on command takes considerable energy, focus, and knowledge
on a complex series of reactions that is slightly better than impossible in
the natural world with little more at his disposal than his ancient brain, a
wooden stick, and a long, white beard.  Try assembling a gun each time you
want to fire a bullet and think about how many Orcs you can take down that
way.
You do realize that it's fiction right?

Jon
Taemon
2010-08-22 19:45:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by J.C. Watts Enslin
You do realize that it's fiction right?
This is the fun that fiction brings. Duh.

T.
Pauli G
2010-08-22 20:03:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Taemon
Post by J.C. Watts Enslin
You do realize that it's fiction right?
This is the fun that fiction brings. Duh.
T.
Jon's a corporal in the Orc Army.
Chet Weaver
2010-08-22 21:47:47 UTC
Permalink
Seriously? I thought it was a documentary and that the events occurred in
real time. Thanks for clearing that up.

At any rate, I fail to see how the realness of the subject matter relates to
the seriousness of the discussion.

-- Chet Weaver

"J.C. Watts Enslin" <***@charter.net> wrote in message news:ff03a251-0d5c-41fb-807f-***@z10g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...

You do realize that it's fiction right?

Jon
The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
2010-08-23 14:25:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Chet Weaver
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
Post by Chet Weaver
I know I'm probably missing the point, but don't you think a science
fiction-type ray gun would be a little out of place in a
swords-and-sorcery type fantasy setting? There are certainly fantasy
settings were magic and technology exist side-by-side, but they're
usually not the same high-fantasy settings that Tolkien seems to inspire.
A setting like Middle-Earth harkens to a time when combat was an actual
skill and you had to fight your enemy face-to-face rather than mowing
them down at a distance with a chaingun. I'm not saying guns suck or the
Lord of the Rings movie was all that great, just that a gun wouldn't fit
the themes of the movie. If you don't watch a movie like Lord of the
Rings and expect to see pulse rifles.
Gandolf used his staph to emit a protecting light very mush like a
pulse gun.
Yes, but he's not rapid-firing energy-bursts like Rambo. Magic is a
difficult skill in his world, and Gandalf is over 2000 years old and
considered one of, if not the, best. And yet, with legions of monsters
bearing down on him, he finds swinging a sword more effective than trying
to shoot lasers, summoning lightning bolts from the sky, or even magically
nuking the field.
Actually, he's using his magic *while* swinging his sword.
Sorta like the Nazgul, dummy.

--Tedward
Pauli G
2010-08-19 17:24:45 UTC
Permalink
Post by The Ghost Of Edward M. Kennedy
While I certainly feel sorry for the poor souls who plopped down good
money to see the Fellowship and got no ending for their money, can you
imagine the saps who paid to see the second movie without seeing the
first one?   No lead-in, no back-story, just more made up mumbo-
jumbo.   And still no pulse rifles or heavy firepower.
A friend of mine tried to get his money back he was so pissed off.
--Tedward
if a wizard can control a vast army of orcs, surely he could conjure
up a few pulse rifles.
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